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Huds, HEM, poker tracker BAD FOR THE GAME


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#1 REYMARTZ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:23 PM

I'm not saying HUDs will make you rich. Im just saying that its not good for the game and poker would be better of without them. The calculating of endless information that they provide is bad for the game. Players are making most of their decisions based on their HUD information. It messes up the way the game supposed to be played. Its like having a helper sitting behind you at every torunament or home cash game whispering in your ear whether to call, fold or raise. Everytime i see my opponent getting help life from his friend sitting behind him i get pissed and let them know to make their own decisions. Its very annoying. Same thing goes with the HUDs and software. Its very anoying having someone make their poker decisions based on someone else or for online, based on their Huds, and software.

POKER PLAYERS SHOULD MAKE THEIR OWN DECISIONS WITHOUT THE HELP OF SOFTWARE.

#2 woltzey

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:00 PM

Amd I would like to point out that WCS isn't necessarily defending the use of HUDs, so don't even go there. He is just asking some valid questions. And tbh, I'd like to know your answers as well.


In general I agree that it would be much better if there were no HUDs at all. But they don't, they fkin don't make a player become Jungleman, if they are clueless otherwise.

#3 daytrip2

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:21 PM

I know that this is anoying, but I still doubt that anyone can control wether players use any kind of this software...Any substantial statement?

#4 REYMARTZ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:08 PM

@WCS064 HUD's actually calculate everyting. From folding to betting. I personally dont use one because for 1 i dont like all those numbers clogging up my beautifull screen, and secondly i dont like looking at all those numbers becuase it might give me a headache. Lastly i am confident in my game that i dont need one. + i want an even playing field for everyone because it will make the online game better for everyone knowing that software is not calcullating your every move. I would feel confortable myself knowing that the people im playing with arent betting and re raising me just cause they have all this stats on me.

IT RUINEDS THE WAY THE GAME IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLAYED. Instead of playing the person your playing the person and the help of the software. again, It messes up the way the game supposed to be played because people are betting or folding against you when in reality (without the software) they might have folded or just called. It takes the normal nature and pureness away from the game.

#5 GrimTard

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:14 PM

WCS064 (2012-07-16) 

woltzey (2012-07-16) Amd I would like to point out that WCS isn't necessarily defending the use of HUDs, so don't even go there. He is just asking some valid questions. And tbh, I'd like to know your answers as well.


In general I agree that it would be much better if there were no HUDs at all. But they don't, they fkin don't make a player become Jungleman, if they are clueless otherwise.



Thanks for pointing that out.

I've stated about a dozen times here that I too think the game would be better w/ no HUDs. I use one, but only because I'm not as saintly as Reymartz.

But, in this discussion, unless you think HUDs are magical, you are for them.



You make valid points wcs. Ofc its not like if you use a hem then your suddenly printing money lol. But they makes it easier for a player who actually understand the numbers, knowes a little about math to become much much stronger. This makes poker in general more difficuelt for everyone.

And there is plenty of players using this softwares and dont even know what they are looking at. HEM/PT is a sick weapon for those who understand the program and the numbers. There is so much more then just looking at the numbers. What type of hands/draw is causing those numbers. Is he checkraising fd alot? Is it 2pairs+...so on. Not saying the use of softwares turnes everyone into Phil Ivey. In many ways i think HUD can misslead players to...

#6 malo

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:14 PM

So just let me say this for all the serious grinders:A tracking software is a needed programm for every serious online player.
It allows you to analyze your game, find leaks, analyze opponents and allows you to play
multiple tables at once and still have a rough idea of your opponents. Profitable multitabeling
would be nearly impossible without a HUD, because you are playing with probably up to 50 diffrent
opponents. Thats why it's needed online and not live. Live you play at ONE table and it is little effort
to watch them yourself, online there is a HUD for you to do that because you can't watch them
all. And you shouldn't forget that what a HUD could possibly do for you does not compensate
watching an opponent yourself at all!
So if you and an equally good multitabler with a HUD play at the same table with you only playing
that one table and the guy with the HUD playing 12, you'll always have an edge!
Saying that i don't really see your problem with HUD's.

#7 REYMARTZ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:33 PM

WCS064 poker is not a solved game, meaning jungleman or anyone cant win when they want or feel like it. Mike sexton says it best "in order to win at poker you have to catch cards" So yes as long as i have a good understanding about the game on any given day YES i could beat Jungleman. You act like pros know everything. They might have an edge which dosent mean they win all the time. SO YEAH I CAN BEAT JUNGLEMAN on any given day. :)

#8 daytrip2

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:36 PM

WCS064 (2012-07-16) 

daytrip2 (2012-07-16) I know that this is anoying, but I still doubt that anyone can control wether players use any kind of this software...



Well they certainly can't monitor every player and find out if they are using it or not.

However, I think a site can block tracking software from working on their site. It's happened before, but usually only because the site is so ****ty, not because they wanted a more fair game.

Bodog is the only one I can think of off the top of my head, but I think there has been some other small ones where no tracking software works.

So if a site's terrible software can prevent the tracking software from working, I'm sure Stars could figure out some way to block all tracking software. Just like they blocked PTR.



The PTR-Case is a totally different thing. PTR deleted the Stars-Profiles because Stars wanted them to do so and threatened them with legal action.

I am far away from being a computer-expert but I mean normaly when you run a software on you computer you can track whatever you want. How could stars even notice that. Once again: I am not an computer-expert but I think we should have some serious information about that before we start to discuss the main topic.

#9 daytrip2

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:49 PM

abyNorman (2012-07-16) Those programs need to identify the players.
If a site hides the names, ids, of the players then all analysis has to be done
during one session at one table.

Of course those programs could make guessies by the style of playing for identification
of the players behind the anonymous playernumbers at the table.



Yeah, of course, hiding names, that's for sure a way...

#10 REYMARTZ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:57 PM

WCS064 (2012-07-16) 

REYMARTZ (2012-07-16) WCS064 poker is not a solved game, meaning jungleman or anyone cant win when they want or feel like it. Mike sexton says it best "in order to win at poker you have to catch cards" So yes as long as i have a good understanding about the game on any given day YES i could beat Jungleman. You act like pros know everything. They might have an edge which dosent mean they win all the time. SO YEAH I CAN BEAT JUNGLEMAN on any given day. :)



lol when I worded it that way I had a feeling you'd say that...YOu know what I mean. Do you really feel you'd have an edge? I'm not trying to be a dick I'm just asking.I fully understand that any decent HU player could probably beat him 30-40% of the time, but you sound like you think you have an edge. (based on your old posts not that last one)



I guess you dint read correctly. Eventhough Jungleman might have an edge on me it dosent mean that he will win every time. If he had the edge your giving him or all the so called pros, then they would win against everyone all the time. Like a said poker is not a SOLVED game which gives everyone with a good understanding a chance to win, even if its against your idol jungleman. If pros were so good they would win every tournament or every cash game which is not the case. So yeah i can beat your idol Jungleman or anyone else on any given day.

#11 abyNorman

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:01 PM

Hiding names isn't a full solution ( Second thought.)

The programs don't need the names, because they work almost
as good, if they just find a number of cathegories for players.
Then they just identify the type of player and use all the data
they gathered before for this type of player.
Ex.
This player (type) folds 80% of the time when the flop is ### and u raise , reraise,...

So the player names aren't that important.
However I know exactly nothing about these programs.

#12 REYMARTZ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:23 PM

Whatever WCS064 just keep this on topic.

All HUD's must be banned from pokersites. Especially PokerStars, Better for the online game overall. There would be more action. Many more people will play knowing that theres noone using help of software.

I have friends who dont play online for the same reason that they think they are being CHEATED. We should all e-mail pokerstars about this issue. I know i will if and when it gets regulated.

#13 REYMARTZ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:37 PM

I play on rigged pokersites cause i cant play on Stars. lol... I refuse to answer your questions cause ill be wasting my time answering you. I play more live 5/10 - 10/20 - 25/50 cash games that run on weekends nearby.

#14 REYMARTZ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 07:54 PM

WCS064 this isn't about me. Stay on topic. its about HUDs and online software and how online poker will be better for everyone without it.

#15 rdl1

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:17 PM

Let's be honest- we'd all cheat if we could get away with it.

If we had the account of that PotRipper fellah, we'd all use it and not be stupid enough to get caught.

In fact, the fact that it has been done before suggests it probably is being done now.

Would anyone really be surprised if it was revealed in the future there were several "super accounts"in existance?

#16 ihatenits

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:19 PM

do most of the highstakes pros use huds ?over 5/10 i mean by highstakesdb.

#17 abyNorman

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:44 PM

Those programs need to identify the players.
If a site hides the names, ids, of the players then all analysis has to be done
during one session at one table.

Of course those programs could make guessies by the style of playing for identification
of the players behind the anonymous playernumbers at the table.

#18 ihatenits

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:44 PM

i dont like the use of huds either .i think every site should have a certain number of anonymous tables for people who dont use huds and never will use them. that way everybodys happy .

#19 daytrip2

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 06:47 PM

WCS064 (2012-07-16) Daytrip- Sorry about that. I forgot that PTR pulled up voluntarily after Stars threatened action.

There is still the case of software not working on Bodog and other terrible sites. I probably know even less about computers than you, but that leads me to believe its very possible.



Hmm, the fact that the software does not work on some terrible sites could just mean that the software is not adjusted for their software.... Whatever, I think that it is a little bit waste of time discuss the ban-question here and no one, apart from you, is interested in the question, wether a ban is even possible.

#20 REYMARTZ

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Posted 16 July 2012 - 08:31 PM

Most of the card runners pros did. heres a video of Jungleman using his online HUD lol! Look at all the stats he basis hes decision on. I would not like to be the other player without a hud. Definitely bad for the game.






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