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Moving Up Stakes in PLO


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#1 CoolHand

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 01:01 PM

A lot of people hit a wall when it comes to moving up stakes. I've hit this wall many times, but also have had success going from .5/1 to as high as 50/100 so wanted to put in my two cents. Now by no means did I ever have good bank roll management. I've sat with my roll at one table many times, but this isn't about bank roll management. It is about tendencies in the low, mid, and high stake limits(not nosebleeds).

.5/1 and 1/2 for the most part are comprised of the tightest PLO players. They may like to see a lot of flops, but they are playing their hands str8 forward. There will be some tight aggro players from time to time, but for the most part it is check call draws, pot out nuts, and never play back. If you do start playing very aggressive, you will see more and more calls pre flop. People will try the approach of "i'm going to try and hit a hand and make him pay for being over aggressive". Playing tight aggressive seems to be the best way to handle these types of players, and frequent c bets will eventually get some lighter calls.


2/4 and 3/6 Here, players move into the more tight aggressive approach. They run with the power poker game, waiting for premium hands and attacking when they get them. Players here will always c bet, often 2 barrel if they are getting just a call, and there will be a wider 3 bet range (although still very premium hands). Loose aggressive can really work at these limits, but be careful about the C bet range. Don't get caught with a check raise on the turn when you have a decent draw. Position is also paramount against tight aggressive players. A min raise on the button with 10864 against AAxx when you are deep could yield some insane implied odds, but playing that same hand oop against an intelligent opponent with AAxx offers much less upside.


5/10, 10/20 Here, there is a mix of the tight aggressive and loose aggressive styles. Some players try to run over the tables while others wait for optimal situations. This is where player tendencies, ranging, and styles have to be observed more carefully. At these limits, you have to adapt to each individual player and get a hold of what they are capable of. Do they bluff the Ace blocker for the flush? Do they bluff str8 blockers? Do they bluff the Qs blocker on a 3 spade board? Do they ever slow play? Do they ever slow play two streets? Three?


I often find that people who are successful at one limit have trouble moving up to higher limits because they do not adapt. Their method that might have worked very well at 1/2 is crushed at 3/6, and they get frustrated because they can't figure out why they are "running bad". Try playing different styles in a session. Min reraise a ton, call down the nuts oop for two streets, bluff without a blocker. Exploring new strategies and spots (if you can afford it) is a great way to practice adapting to higher limits.


#2 babbage

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 08:27 PM

this is gold great post.

#3 lofigr

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:01 PM

babbage (2012-11-21) this is gold great post.



I don't like to like posts, therefore I comment...
I agree 100%.
Wanted to write something, but after that post - it wouldn't be clever thing... Now I dare to....
Seems like OP is really good player, who knows - maybe I learn something reading his posts..
Regards to everyone.

#4 flame4fame

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Posted 21 November 2012 - 09:26 PM

i have played plo for long time and all i can say is that at almost every higher limit aggrersion is bigger

#5 JynxTheLynx

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 12:02 AM

Yes yes coolhand you play on bovada and are a winner bla bla, we heard this speech from you like 3 months ago where you gave advice to all plo playesr in a very lengthy well thought out thread.

#6 aidobusto

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:33 AM

JynxTheLynx (2012-11-21) Yes yes coolhand you play on bovada and are a winner bla bla, we heard this speech from you like 3 months ago where you gave advice to all plo playesr in a very lengthy well thought out thread.



what a cynical ****ty post to put up. like seriously, why the fcuk did you even take the time to write this?
this guy posts, like he has many times before to help others, and along comes a prick like you sneering his achievements and the insight he is offering. its no wonder this site is hated by alot of people and will never rival 2p2 with wankers like you here
i know... ill call myself isildur1.... thatll catch on

#7 aidobusto

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:33 AM

JynxTheLynx (2012-11-21) Yes yes coolhand you play on bovada and are a winner bla bla, we heard this speech from you like 3 months ago where you gave advice to all plo playesr in a very lengthy well thought out thread.



what a cynical ****ty post to put up. like seriously, why the fcuk did you even take the time to write this?
this guy posts, like he has many times before to help others, and along comes a prick like you sneering his achievements and the insight he is offering. its no wonder this site is hated by alot of people and will never rival 2p2 with wankers like you here
i know... ill call myself isildur1.... thatll catch on

#8 babbage

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:30 AM

aidobusto (2012-11-22) 

JynxTheLynx (2012-11-21) Yes yes coolhand you play on bovada and are a winner bla bla, we heard this speech from you like 3 months ago where you gave advice to all plo playesr in a very lengthy well thought out thread.



what a cynical ****ty post to put up. like seriously, why the fcuk did you even take the time to write this?
this guy posts, like he has many times before to help others, and along comes a prick like you sneering his achievements and the insight he is offering. its no wonder this site is hated by alot of people and will never rival 2p2 with wankers like you here



+1
http://www.highstakesdb.com/forum/Uploads/Images/9938ac3e-b9f3-4fb5-9e4b-c0f5.jpg

#9 JynxTheLynx

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:20 AM

Oh I see... your trying to actually use what he's said from this thread to make money, try it.

#10 CoolHand

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 06:52 AM

I've been very bitter at times too Jynx with this game. I can't count how many times I wanted to smash my computer or yell at someone. I guess that is why I write this stuff. Sometimes we get stuck with our play in this game, and it is good to discuss ideas, issues, and problems. By talking with other players and hashing out these ideas, we are improving our chances of improving our game and alleviating some of this frustration. I've by no means had huge successes consistently in this game and am not a model poker player by any means, but I have overcome a lot of huge down swings and obstacles that I feel give me a perspective that might be helpful for other players.

#11 Jahjimmy

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 05:41 PM

Great post,

Im a super fish when regarding PLO, interesting if someone would make the same post about Holdem.
All ins, are overrated!!

#12 aidobusto

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:35 PM

JynxTheLynx (2012-11-22) Oh I see... your trying to actually use what he's said from this thread to make money, try it.





lol, i dont even play much plo anymore, almost only playing draw...
i know... ill call myself isildur1.... thatll catch on

#13 MCASLAN7

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 07:50 PM

CoolHand (2012-11-22) I've been very bitter at times too Jynx with this game. I can't count how many times I wanted to smash my computer or yell at someone. I guess that is why I write this stuff. Sometimes we get stuck with our play in this game, and it is good to discuss ideas, issues, and problems. By talking with other players and hashing out these ideas, we are improving our chances of improving our game and alleviating some of this frustration. I've by no means had huge successes consistently in this game and am not a model poker player by any means, but I have overcome a lot of huge down swings and obstacles that I feel give me a perspective that might be helpful for other players.



Totally AGREE! well said.

''good to discuss ideas, issues, and problems. By talking with other players and hashing out these ideas''

#14 rookiecookie

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Posted 22 November 2012 - 08:48 PM

i know you say this post is not about bankroll management..................but plo is all about bankroll management which allows your style of play to pay of and the time for you to adapt at any level.

buys ins and a sound brain allow you to figure players out......sitting on a table with your whole roll is something i would strongly advice anyone reading this thread not to do .also multitabling any level to start of with is a no no.always play one table at a time and have 150 plus buy inns.

#15 RaWi

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 01:27 AM

rookiecookie (2012-11-22) i know you say this post is not about bankroll management..................but plo is all about bankroll management which allows your style of play to pay of and the time for you to adapt at any level.

buys ins and a sound brain allow you to figure players out......sitting on a table with your whole roll is something i would strongly advice anyone reading this thread not to do .also multitabling any level to start of with is a no no.always play one table at a time and have 150 plus buy inns.



+1, no ++1, no no +++1

i agree 100%!!!

You may take a shot with 25 or 50 BuyIn`s at NLH, but never do that at PLO!
If u want to play comfortable at PLO u need min. 100 BuyIn`s or (much better) 150+ BuyIn`s.
In this case (150+) you can afford a series of 3-5 losing sessions with about 5-8 BI`s and
this doesn`t affect your BR.

A few words to OP:
Thanks for your posts, they are really good (your other thread inclused), and helped me to
think more wider about PLO. But i also think that if you sit down at a table with your
whole BR its a calculated risc because its not your complete BR. Am i right?

#16 xxxVaLxxx

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 02:18 AM

You can play PLO with an aggressiv BRM (don't need 150 BI).
You can easily do something like :
50 BI of the sup limit => move up
35 BI of the actual limit => move down
And all is fine.

#17 CoolHand

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:55 AM

A lot of times it has been a calculated risk and I had back ups, but I have definitley been broke and playing with a few buy ins from a credit card before. When I was at a low I was playing more careful, pretty tight, and taking shots at bigger limits when I thought I saw value from another player or players.

#18 ShipIt2Daddy

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 10:22 AM

This is your personaly toughts and is fare from impressiv!

#19 rookiecookie

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

CoolHand (2012-11-23) A lot of times it has been a calculated risk and I had back ups, but I have definitley been broke and playing with a few buy ins from a credit card before. When I was at a low I was playing more careful, pretty tight, and taking shots at bigger limits when I thought I saw value from another player or players.



lets face facts here.....................plo is the biggest game out there to make money for a good player at the moment......im talking day in day out......theres always action making even mediocore players who are very loose 5 to 6 k daily


if you are really good why risk anything for what could be a million dollar plus yearly income ......when you start off always play 100 plus buy inns......take your time build a huge roll before you move up in stakes.


one.....this will prove you can crush it at the stake you playing ...eg i made 3k plus at 5-10c befeore i even moved to 10 -25 c when i started


two......you will have the adequate amount at that level your at to have fun and takes risk and believe me in plo when you got a stack and can take a few fliers on hands which other wise you may fold.


three.......... you will be full of confidence and really excited to move up instead of being unsure, weary and nervous about losing


other than that enjoy poker and play within your means gl all

#20 babbage

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Posted 23 November 2012 - 06:37 PM

ShipIt2Daddy (2012-11-23) This is your personaly toughts and is fare from impressiv!



like your spelling.....bellend.




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