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Downswings Running Badly

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#1 HighStakesPLO


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Posted 22 November 2012 - 09:20 AM

A downswing is a phrase poker players use to describe a period when they earn significantly less than their expected win rate over a number of sessions. It is very difficult to define a downswing any more specifically than that.

All players experience downswings at some point, and they can be extremely troubling times indeed.

In reality,that downswings really don't even exist from a theoretical perspective. They are a figment of the imagination of the player involved.
But the poker community talks about them, they believe in them, and they assign properties to them.

#2 minichips20


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Posted 22 November 2012 - 10:02 AM

They may exist theoretically from a mathematical perspective but they do exist. Rises and falls in confidence are a reality of being and our ability to make correct decisions are influenced accordingly. Its not just some mental thing that we have control over; there is also a chemical reaction in the brain that causes us to be more risk avoidant when we have falls in confidence. this is what causes the downswing. A very bad beat, normal variance or even something happening outside of poker can be enough to kick things off

#3 lofigr



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Posted 22 November 2012 - 11:13 AM

A downswing is a phrase poker players use to describe a period when they earn significantly less than their expected win rate over a number of sessions.

Isn't downswing losing period in your game? Downswing is not less earning than expected....

When PROs that earn 1M per year (like Galfond) writes in his blog that he recently lost 700 K, showing earning/losing graph ( including EV+ graph) in last 10 days that means "he is on downswing".


#4 helgimo



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Posted 22 November 2012 - 01:57 PM

Sometimes you just can´t win, you become frustrated, tilted, play badly, try to force things, play too agressively, scared, passively.......you become so much better if you realize the first part, you can´t win and don´t play until you are ready again. I have lost count on how many times i haven´t followed this simple advise and cursed at myself afterwards...when it´s too late :P

#5 temp51



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Posted 22 November 2012 - 02:09 PM

1) the term "downswing" does not mean that there is physical swings that are directing down to the floor. its a rhetorical figure that means that u run pretty bad. so, if some one says or if ur book says that they do not exist is lieing because bad runs do exist.

2) if you run bad for weeks or even months, its not normal variance anymore, its rigged software of the poker site.

#6 alkent81


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Posted 22 November 2012 - 03:28 PM

Sometimes everyone need a downswing.
Makes game more interesting.
Need to improve your game.
Makes reflect you.
But if you are mostly of your poker time in downswing better change game.

#7 chesster


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Posted 23 November 2012 - 04:50 AM

Your definition is not close to the definition of the common use of downswing. When people say "downswing" they are talking about losing money, not running below EV. You can run below EV for a given period and still win, if you do so its not a downswing. You can run even or + for a period but still lose, if you do then its still a downswing.

You say all players experience them and they can be "extremely troubling times indeed", but they theoretically don't exist. So, you are saying they actually exist, but theoretically they don't? I've never heard of something that exists in reality, but not in theory. Are there any other such examples in the world?

Can;t think of any in the world but there is a restaurant at the end of the universe!
  • Anything that happens, happens.
    Anything that, in happening, causes something else to happen, causes something else to happen.

    Anything that, in happening, causes itself to happen again, happens again.
    It doesn't necessarily do it in chronological order, though.

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