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What happend Betsafe ? *Resolved*


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#1 Criclevit

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:44 PM

Hi guys,

One of my poker friends wich I know him perssonaly tried recently to verify his acount with Betfase after he had some good runs in small buy-ins mtt and won a total of 700 euros so he wanted to cashout a part.

He sent them the following documents : ID photo , moneybookers card photo front/back and a letter from moneybookers , no older then 3 months were you can clearly see that is same adress as on his ID and the answer from Betsafe risk departement wass the following :Our Risk department has made decision to Permanently close your account and we won't be able to help you. This decision is final.

I've personally tried to get in contact with a Betsafe manager and kindly ask them to review the situation of this player because here is a misunderstanding but with no succes.Mr Patrick Klimmer ( Betsafe Head Manager ) wass verry rude and recommanded me I shouldnt write him anymore about this because it wass confirmed and I taked few minutes from his precious time talking about my friend and accord to his words is a " criminal "

Skype chat :

Quote:3/22/2013 2:53:26 PM] Patryk KLIMER: You friend have provided fake documents
[3/22/2013 2:53:30 PM] Patryk KLIMER: End of story
[3/22/2013 2:57:53 PM] criclevit.mihail: can't be , i've seen those documents
[3/22/2013 2:58:10 PM] Patryk KLIMER: it is confirmed
[3/22/2013 2:58:44 PM] Patryk KLIMER: end of conversation
[3/22/2013 2:58:56 PM] Patryk KLIMER: you know what you should know
[3/22/2013 2:59:00 PM] criclevit.mihail: no tbh
[3/22/2013 2:59:12 PM] Patryk KLIMER: dont take my time anymore with criminals
[3/22/2013 2:59:45 PM] criclevit.mihail: you are wrong my friend
[3/22/2013 3:00:05 PM] criclevit.mihail: he can get legal authorization
[3/22/2013 3:00:05 PM] Patryk KLIMER: dude seriously
[3/22/2013 3:00:12 PM] Patryk KLIMER: dont write anymore

I would attach here same documents wich wass sent and accepted by Fulltilt and WilliamHill but wass rejected by Betsafe because according to them are fake and his 700 euro frozen.



Any help , advices about what we can do to solve this heavy abuse is welcome.I wrote this topic in his name because he got no acount on here and his english is verry verry poor.

Edit by moderator - Changed the size of the pictures


#2 Canumakemefeelgood?

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:51 PM

cliffs???

#3 gedas

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:54 PM

so a manager of poker site uses words like "dude" and just broken english?fake or gay

#4 REYMARTZ

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 08:59 PM

Why are people still playing on other bogus sites other than PokerStars and FTP?

#5 REYMARTZ

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:02 PM

Maybe cause the signature in the back of the card looks like a 5 year old signed it??

#6 Criclevit

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:03 PM

gedas (2013-03-25) so a manager of poker site uses words like "dude" and just broken english?fake or gay



I would send Mr Klimmer a link to this thread in order to offer him the chance to defend himself of this accusation.

#7 w00t

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:04 PM

I'd be very surprised if a head manager communicated that way, and especially the last message which makes no sense at all.

OP - it is obviously impossible for us to comment on this because Betsafe's security department knows a lot more about this than we possibly could. They have millions of players and do tens of thousands of verifications every month, I wouldn't think they close a player's account without a good reason. (not saying they can't be in the wrong from time to time)

#8 Criclevit

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:05 PM

REYMARTZ (2013-03-25) Maybe cause the signature in the back of the card looks like a 5 year old signed it??



IMO , I agree it looks like a 5 year old signed it.But that is a good reason to block his acount permantly for the accusation of fake documents ?


Here is the last chat he had with live operators from Betsafe and since then no word from them.


Guntars: Hi, my name is Guntars.
Daniel Iovan: hello
Daniel Iovan: my name is Iovan Ionut Daniel
Daniel Iovan: Dear Daniel Iovan
Your betsafe account is [email protected]
A document you have submitted for verification: Proof of ID , has not been approved.
The reason given for this is : The Photo ID you have provided could not be fully verified.
Please upload a corrected version of this document. If you have any questions, please contact us. Our contact details are available on the Contact Us of our website.
Best Regards
Betsafe
Daniel Iovan: ????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lol
Daniel Iovan: sorry no speak good english
Daniel Iovan: What documents are required
Daniel Iovan: ?
Guntars: One moment please.
Daniel Iovan: ok
Guntars: Risk department is still checking your account. Please hold on.
Daniel Iovan: ?
Daniel Iovan: i do not understand
Daniel Iovan: Attach File-> send you documents ?
Guntars: Our Risk department has made decision to Permanently close your account and we won't be able to help you. This decision is final.
Daniel Iovan: what ?!!!!!
Daniel Iovan: why ??
Guntars: 2.13
Betsafe reserves the right to close down existing accounts without explanation. In this event, or in the event of an account closure by the User, the full balance will be paid out unless any fraudulent behaviour is suspected. Betsafe also reserves the right to report to the appropriate authorities, if any User is involved in any form of suspected fraudulent behaviour.
Daniel Iovan: Well I will send the documents you seek dumineavoastra
Daniel Iovan: extras cont ?
Daniel Iovan: plss no exit account
Guntars: Unfortunately there is nothing that we can do to reopen your account. There is no need for further copies or contacts.

#9 REYMARTZ

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:07 PM

I bet OMGitsViktor would like to put Isai Scheinberg on SKYPE. Would be epic, wonder what he'll say about his 3rd arm and everything else :)

#10 Criclevit

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:08 PM

w00t (2013-03-25) I'd be very surprised if a head manager communicated that way, and especially the last message which makes no sense at all.

OP - it is obviously impossible for us to comment on this because Betsafe's security department knows a lot more about this than we possibly could. They have millions of players and do tens of thousands of verifications every month, I wouldn't think they close a player's account without a good reason. (not saying they can't be in the wrong from time to time)



Personally I tried to think at a good reason but there isn't one.This guy never deposit , he won some money freerolling the he build up to 700 euros playng mtts.He never played cash game , so no way to collude and he send them same documents wich wass accepted by Fulltilt and WHP recently.


It really makes me so angry on them when heavy abbuses like this care commited by poker rooms.

#11 Rageface

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 09:54 PM

Wow that's ****ing messed up. Also really ****ty of them to not provide a proper explanation.
Assuming his ID & details are legit, I hope he gets his money back.

#12 BuddBallTom

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:13 AM

I had trouble getting my winnings out of bwin, Done abit of searching and found this site http://www.casinoscamreport.com/ I sent over 50 emails and 5 phone calls to try and get my money back to no avail, Some guy on this site said he would try and sort it for me, And hey presto next day i got my money, Give it a try youve got nothing to lose.

#13 LostSam

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:02 AM

This would be easier to comment on if your friend was posting the information, not you. You have no legal authority to speak to them about this at all, and I am surprised they even commented this much on it. Generally, all poker sites will refuse to speak to anyone about anyone else's account, for obvious security reasons.

It sounds very strange, the entire situation. I would suggest your friend deals with it, rather than you getting involved. As more people involved will only complicate matters further.

#14 NOOSEBLEEDS

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:53 AM

Daniel Iovan: Dear Daniel Iovan
Your betsafe account is [email protected]
A document you have submitted for verification: Proof of ID , has not been approved.
The reason given for this is : The Photo ID you have provided could not be fully verified.
Please upload a corrected version of this document. If you have any questions, please contact us. Our contact details are available on the Contact Us of our website.
Best Regards
Betsafe


Did daniel really said this in the conversation?

#15 Criclevit

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 09:13 PM

Anyone deal till now with LGA ? It worth to help him and fill a complain there ?

#16 zigildurrr

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:08 PM

in the words of Ziigmund , total f sick

#17 janushr

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:37 PM

i agree with you(if his documents are legit?),that he deserve to recive his money...i had simmilar expirience 5,6 yrs ago with Bwin,as i made my first account there(actually my friend made one,as i didnt knew anything about poker sites and computers,just bought comp),and i didnt have any credit cards,so we used his mother card,and he ask me what i would like to have name on site,i said janus and he added his mother surname,so use it instead of real name,lol,but it was as we both didnt know any **** what so ever,it was in like 2007 or 8...so,i also in 3 days made 3 FT,end up twice second and one 5,so total of 400$...i tried to withdraw it,and xcomplication starts...i wrote them and signed my real name..eventually i explained everything and they close my account...even after i send real name and ID and all stuff...first,they refuse any payment...so,i find their phone number(again with my friend help) and call them,and nicely explain that isnt the matter of 400$,i earned fair and want my money...they refuse,so i made a promise to sit on next plane to gibraltar and visit them personnally with a baseball bat...not cause of money,i would pay more for plane tickett,but cause of justice...i recive my money 7 days later...tbh,it was better days and they prolly didnt want to meet a crazy person with bat for 400,so they ship it...i went to war w 19,been to special forces,i would sure do the trip if not sent...now its different matter,not so much money any more in poker online(biggest reason is POKER SITES AND THEIR GREED),so i wish you luck to recive what is rightfully yours(or your friend)...further it shows,that almost anybody can have their account closed,if poker site decide it,and according to terms,you cant do anything...if my situation occured today,i think i would surly visited gibraltar and you would have opportunity to read that in news;)

#18 LostSam

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:04 PM

This, boys and girls, is why you play on Stars, or now FullTilt. They may not offer such good rake-back deals, but you never have to muck around with stuff. Like the thread about Lock poker and the two month waiting for cheques. You pay more money to get a much, much better service at PokerStars or FullTilt. It's that simple. If you're playing large amounts of money online, you pay to play somewhere secure and efficient. The longest I've ever had to wait for cashout from Stars is about a week, though it was in my account in less than 48 hours, it just had to clear - which I don't care about it - I'm from overseas, so it's typical to wait a bit for funds like that to be worked out.

If you're always trying to get the best deals online, you're going to run into issues like this. It's like if you buy your shoes at the cheapest store around... they're never going to be as good or last as long as if you buy expensive shoes from a trusted store.


Basically, aside from USA people who're a bit stuck right now, I do not have much sympathy for people who have issues with their stuff. You will never see a situation like this from Poker Stars, ever. Their customer service is always very good, and they deal with cashouts quickly and without any fuss. It's also easy to get them to raise the limits of both deposits and withdrawals.


Pay the extra rake for security, people! Otherwise, stop moaning that your cheap poker-site isn't as good as the big boys are. You are trying to save some money with rake-back... but saving money you can never get is about as useful as tits on a bull.

#19 Wawro1

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:06 PM

LostSam (2013-03-26) This would be easier to comment on if your friend was posting the information, not you. You have no legal authority to speak to them about this at all, and I am surprised they even commented this much on it. Generally, all poker sites will refuse to speak to anyone about anyone else's account, for obvious security reasons.

It sounds very strange, the entire situation. I would suggest your friend deals with it, rather than you getting involved. As more people involved will only complicate matters further.



You're right, but in this situation the victim can't speak english so that's a proper reason to open a thread as victim's friend. There are only 2 possible reasons which get into my mind to ban account.

1, The credit card is not belonging to a victim.
2, Account sharing. This is most probably reason and it all make sense. There are 2 persons involved, no doubt about it. If you logged on just one time on the IP paired with another account, you're probably screwed.

I just don't get all this "Ban account with no reason" thing. This is a terrible rule on some sites and I would never play under this condition. Come on, they have to provide some reason for god sakes.

#20 LostSam

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 11:12 PM

Wawro1 (2013-03-26) 

LostSam (2013-03-26) This would be easier to comment on if your friend was posting the information, not you. You have no legal authority to speak to them about this at all, and I am surprised they even commented this much on it. Generally, all poker sites will refuse to speak to anyone about anyone else's account, for obvious security reasons.

It sounds very strange, the entire situation. I would suggest your friend deals with it, rather than you getting involved. As more people involved will only complicate matters further.



You're right, but in this situation the victim can't speak english so that's a proper reason to open a thread as victim's friend. There are only 2 possible reasons which get into my mind to ban account.

1, The credit card is not belonging to a victim.
2, Account sharing. This is most probably reason and it all make sense. There are 2 persons involved, no doubt about it. If you logged on just one time on the IP paired with another account, you're probably screwed.

I just don't get all this "Ban account with no reason" thing. This is a terrible rule on some sites and I would never play under this condition. Come on, they have to provide some reason for god sakes.



The thing is... if you're playing there, making rake, and generally following the rules, they won't just ban you for no reason. I highly doubt that what is being said is the entire truth.


But yes, read my post above yours - I think that sums it up the best.




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