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Posted 2010-02-05 02:53
Group: Forum Members
Registered: 2010-07-01
Posts: 289, Visits: 688
RE: Bad Shove or Bad Call???

Without stats and without history we can´t say for sure if your and his move were good or not. It depends on table image, previously seen moves, how you see him, how he sees you etc. Variables that can´t be seen here in an isolated hand. How should we determine your fold equity against him? You have to be extremly sure that he folds for such a move. But personally I would never have shoved here. With 30bb there´s some time to wait for better spots than risking all in a gamble here.

And I mean you say "for the SECOND time since i was moved to that table i go ahead and try to complete his big blind, and AS USUAL KipsterDK raises me to 2200" . Second time = As usual? 2 times is enough for you to say that something happens usually? Are you serious?

I mean you completed his blind ONCE before and got raised and now when this happens for the second time, you conclude that he ALWAYS makes a move and raises you with air. And because you folded to him ONCE before he now should think that THIS TIME you are trapping him? Sorry but judging that something happens usually because it happens for the second time is idiotic.

Youre talking about it as if you completed his blind 20 times and got raised 20 times, and now at the 21st time you´re shoving his raise, so this time he should know you have a fking good hand. Yeah if that was the case I would have folded AJ in his spot...
2010-02-05 03:03 by BarackOmaha
Posted 2010-02-05 03:07
Group: Forum Members
Registered: 2011-03-11
Posts: 212, Visits: 589
RE: Bad Shove or Bad Call???

i dont think its bad on your part or his part. he made the right call when the cards turned over. also if you say he had taken this line and you had folded then he had to consider you had just had enough and were playing back lighter. i think limping is **** tho if you raise and get 3bet you are in control of wether u shove or fold and if u shove you have more fold equity with this line imo
Posted 2010-02-05 04:07
Group: Forum Members
Registered: 2012-01-12
Posts: 39, Visits: 312
RE: Bad Shove or Bad Call???

It's good to be aggressive in MTTs, maybe its a good shove and a good call. If anything i'd say bad call.
Posted 2010-02-05 06:10
kdm
Group: Forum Members
Registered: 2010-03-15
Posts: 149, Visits: 633
RE: Bad Shove or Bad Call???

He probably decided that a 3 raise from 2200 to 25000 indicated that you didnt want a call and called based on that. If maybe you had reraised to 5 or 6k you would be much more likely to win the hand preflop or on the flop.
Posted 2010-02-05 07:08
Group: Forum Members
Registered: 2012-02-11
Posts: 1 179, Visits: 4 221
RE: Bad Shove or Bad Call???

i can't believe its 4 pages of discussion on this. pair versus 2 overcards is about as standard as it gets. i agree that there is no way anyone plays a big pocket pair like this in this situation. so he prob knew you had a middle pair or something like that and decided to race.

as for your shove, it hardly seems worth it. if he's just stealing then you win what 3000? (you're risking 25K to win 3?) if not, your best case scenario is racing for your tournament, worst case you're completely dominated by a bigger pair. you certainly didn't need to shove with 66 there.
if you flat call and push on the flop even, putting him on a big ace. he prob folds.
for me, i'd never risk a tournament on a pair of sixes in that spot.
i never understand why people shove with middle pair except shorthanded. you're usually only gonna get called by hands just like that one, and then you're racing.
he's almost even calling with that hand if he puts you on small/medium pair.
if you flat call, and push on a low board, then he's a 3 to 1 dog and prob wont call. if a face card hits, you get out cheap.
just my opinion.
Posted 2010-03-09 05:22
Group: Forum Members
Registered: 2011-03-16
Posts: 34, Visits: 167
RE: Bad Shove or Bad Call???

flip a coin, that's what you did in the first place.
Posted 2010-03-09 05:55
Group: Forum Members
Registered: 2010-04-26
Posts: 5, Visits: 59
RE: Bad Shove or Bad Call???

i think the only bad play was just calling his bb instead of ramming it, if he calls and u get outrun well that is just poker. i personally wouldnt call with aj off either it that spot but obviously some will. so i think it was a better shove than call.bad result though !!
Posted 2010-05-14 11:20
Group: Forum Members
Registered: 2010-05-26
Posts: 15, Visits: 38
RE: Bad Shove or Bad Call???

I don't see how you could possibly think this is bad... If you know he is the type of player that will 3b you if you open from the SB... then he knows what his table image is... meaning you would raise AA from the SB because you expect him to 3b... with you limp/shoving it is NEVER strong here. I would of snap called you off with AJ.

I don't like the way you played it though tbh... I would rather see you open... him 3b... and you 4b shove. My guess is he still calls but thats irrelevant.

The fact that you limped against his table image looks weak to me.

But yeah, standard spot, standard call, gg.

-Arson
Posted 2010-05-14 11:25
Group: Forum Members
Registered: 2010-05-26
Posts: 15, Visits: 38
RE: Bad Shove or Bad Call???

trumbo (2010-02-05)
i can't believe its 4 pages of discussion on this. pair versus 2 overcards is about as standard as it gets. i agree that there is no way anyone plays a big pocket pair like this in this situation. so he prob knew you had a middle pair or something like that and decided to race.

as for your shove, it hardly seems worth it. if he's just stealing then you win what 3000? (you're risking 25K to win 3?) if not, your best case scenario is racing for your tournament, worst case you're completely dominated by a bigger pair. you certainly didn't need to shove with 66 there.
if you flat call and push on the flop even, putting him on a big ace. he prob folds.
for me, i'd never risk a tournament on a pair of sixes in that spot.
i never understand why people shove with middle pair except shorthanded. you're usually only gonna get called by hands just like that one, and then you're racing.
he's almost even calling with that hand if he puts you on small/medium pair.
if you flat call, and push on a low board, then he's a 3 to 1 dog and prob wont call. if a face card hits, you get out cheap.
just my opinion.


Are you one of those, "I put you on AK people?"

Come on, I am sorry but this breakdown of the hand is not good. A) If you aren't willing to take risks in +chip EV spots then you aren't a winning player. B) limp/calling and then jamming a low flop is insanely bad because you are taking away every bit of value that 66 has.... for instance... lets say OP limp/calls the raise... flop 8 4 3 rainbow and he just heaves. The guy is NEVER calling with worse... and ALWAYS calling with better. aka, 66 would be turned into a pure bluff... you might as well do this with 9 high or something.

-Arson
Posted 2010-05-14 11:53
Group: Forum Members
Registered: 2010-07-27
Posts: 186, Visits: 176
RE: Bad Shove or Bad Call???

[quote]runbad (2009-11-12)


was it a bad shove by me or a bad call by him??

1st never ask this question here its like asking first graders to do college work
2nd your play was fine considering you had a solid read and it kinda sounded like you wanted him to re raise so you could shove? probably looking to pick up his dead money so in all not a bad play by you...but its a real loose call on his end i would defenetly lean towards bad call

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