Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board.

Hi guys,So this is the scenario. On this super crazy home game, we started playing 5-10nlh, first buy in at 1500, but some players buy in for 3000. As we got deeper, we just pumped up the game to 10-20. I was sitting at 5k then lost a big pot when my big ace vs bad ace+FD gets there on the river. I am down to 2kish when the following hand happens. it goes 2 limpers (7 handed game) i am on button and decide to make 100 to go with 99. Everybody calls (which is typical in this game). Flop comes K34 rainbow. it all checks to me, and i know it is very likely that someone could easily have a K, but i dont think someone ever have a big AK or even KQ on this game, maybe BB could have CC with KJ or KQ, but unlikely. Anyways, i bet 400 and BB is the only caller. Turn brings a 5 so board shows K345. He checks, and here is my thought. I thought he was on some kind of KT or K9, possibly KJ and very unlikely KQ, AK or set. Of course he can show up with those, but unlikely. I take my time and decided to shove 1600 onto 1300 pot thinking that it is a really though call for KJ and below, but with KQ he prob calls me bc of the dynamic of the game. Well, he instant calls me and shows 67 for nuts. I dont mind he hit the nuts on the turn, but how flawed was my thinking there? Or does it have any merits?I am probably going back to this game often, as these people have lots of $ and are willing to gamble, but they will def. put me into a lot of tough spots, because we play very deep. I do want more insight of players o play deep stack poker, like 200-500bb deep.BTW, even though it was 10-20 game, raises to 200 PF was standard and if u raised to 75, RR up to 500 and 1000 common. Typical game where u can lose or win a lot.Thanks for the insights.

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Posted 2010-02-25 05:33
obstante Group: Forum Members Registered: 2011-08-07 Posts: 36, Visits: 564	Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board. Hi guys,So this is the scenario. On this super crazy home game, we started playing 5-10nlh, first buy in at 1500, but some players buy in for 3000. As we got deeper, we just pumped up the game to 10-20. I was sitting at 5k then lost a big pot when my big ace vs bad ace+FD gets there on the river. I am down to 2kish when the following hand happens. it goes 2 limpers (7 handed game) i am on button and decide to make 100 to go with 99. Everybody calls (which is typical in this game). Flop comes K34 rainbow. it all checks to me, and i know it is very likely that someone could easily have a K, but i dont think someone ever have a big AK or even KQ on this game, maybe BB could have CC with KJ or KQ, but unlikely. Anyways, i bet 400 and BB is the only caller. Turn brings a 5 so board shows K345. He checks, and here is my thought. I thought he was on some kind of KT or K9, possibly KJ and very unlikely KQ, AK or set. Of course he can show up with those, but unlikely. I take my time and decided to shove 1600 onto 1300 pot thinking that it is a really though call for KJ and below, but with KQ he prob calls me bc of the dynamic of the game. Well, he instant calls me and shows 67 for nuts. I dont mind he hit the nuts on the turn, but how flawed was my thinking there? Or does it have any merits?I am probably going back to this game often, as these people have lots of $ and are willing to gamble, but they will def. put me into a lot of tough spots, because we play very deep. I do want more insight of players o play deep stack poker, like 200-500bb deep.BTW, even though it was 10-20 game, raises to 200 PF was standard and if u raised to 75, RR up to 500 and 1000 common. Typical game where u can lose or win a lot.Thanks for the insights. Edited 2011-03-24 14:23 by briost
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Posted 2010-02-25 05:49
seany1888 Group: Forum Members Registered: 2011-11-17 Posts: 2 214, Visits: 2 457	RE: Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board. More pot control on the flop. If you think you're behind but want to see a turn, a check-call would've probably have been better. Betting $400 into a $400(?) pot isn't a sensible play imo.. Unlucky he caught the nuts, but playing so deep you should probably try to control the pots/bluffs.
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Posted 2010-02-25 05:50
seany1888 Group: Forum Members Registered: 2011-11-17 Posts: 2 214, Visits: 2 457	RE: Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board. (and if he's calling for $400 with a gutshot, I don't see him folding any K.)
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Posted 2010-02-25 05:52
tamas6 Group: Forum Members Registered: 2011-03-11 Posts: 212, Visits: 589	RE: Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board. i dont realy like the shove. i think when u cbet into 6 players u look super strong so id say 90% of the time u get called its by kX or better. this time the villain has shown up with a random hand but the board is so dry its not a great double barrel spot imo bcos i dont think many hands that call the flop fold the turn.ALSO you are kind of turning your hand into a bluff on the turn bcos u never get called by worse but what hands can u realy expect to fold out Edited 2010-02-25 05:59 by tamas6
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Posted 2010-02-25 05:56
tamas6 Group: Forum Members Registered: 2011-03-11 Posts: 212, Visits: 589	RE: Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board. seany1888 (2010-02-25) More pot control on the flop. If you think you're behind but want to see a turn, a check-call would've probably have been better. Betting $400 into a $400(?) pot isn't a sensible play imo.. Unlucky he caught the nuts, but playing so deep you should probably try to control the pots/bluffs. i dont like this line bcos the board is dry and we dont want to give 6 players a free card. if a Q or J came and someone bet i think it would be very -ev to call in that situation. we can stil have the best hand here and i prefer op's line with cbet for protection and info. i think we should shut down on the turn and evaluate on the river though. good chance they wont value bet a weak K and get a cheap showdown
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Posted 2010-02-25 05:59
obstante Group: Forum Members Registered: 2011-08-07 Posts: 36, Visits: 564	RE: Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board. True, I think i should probably just given up on the flop when the K came, but as it turned out, no one had a K. I think i got a little too creative on that play but the 5 on the turn was really unlucky. Anything else he can't call. This is the type of the game where whenever they have a draw, they might reraise AI for a lot of $, and when u sitting with TPTK, u really dont know what to do. That game i built early and then one hand i raised KT on CO to 150 and got 2 callers, flop Kxx with flush draw, i bet 250 CB and this super aggro player reraises me all in. I called because i had only 1600 to start the hand, and i put him on a draw. I was right, and he bricked out, but a few hands later i had AJ on Axx, turn is a diamond so two diamonds. I bet 250 he RR to 1k, which i should have reshoved bc i again put him on pair+FD...but did a -EV play and just called planning to call any non diamond river. River Diamond though, and i check fold to his shove. He was nice to show me the flush though, so i was right on with the read. Should i have shoved the turn to make him pay the draw? BTW, he is calling 100% of the time with it, and i understand that i am a huge favorite, but i only broght 3k to this game and i didnt want to go broke on that hand in case he hit. If i was rolled for this game i think i should have shoved though....dont know... Juicy but tuff game...any insights?
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Posted 2010-02-25 07:06
tamas6 Group: Forum Members Registered: 2011-03-11 Posts: 212, Visits: 589	RE: Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board. i think you are making a lot of mistakes. dont 'give up' on a flop with 1 over card i liked the cbet it was good. and most of the time you ae either getting raised so u can fold or they are checking turn. turn shove is horrible i think. what do you think he calls the flop with and folds the turn? what hands do u rep (about 2: AK AA (i doubt u shove KK)). if your bankroll is stoping you making the play you want to then dont play.
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Posted 2010-02-25 07:36
obstante Group: Forum Members Registered: 2011-08-07 Posts: 36, Visits: 564	RE: Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board. I know I am making a lot of mistakes, and that is why i am putting it here to discuss BTW, i need to mention, when i say game is 1500 BI, i mean in RMB (i am in china) so that is like....200ish bucks. When i say people are sitting with 10k+i mean 1500 usd. Thanks for all the insights. I think this game is very juicy, and swingy. I dont play poker full time, i have a job, but i do enjoy some pker action. Online i usually play mostly OH8, usually HU from 3-6 to 5-10. I never play really bankrolled, when i run good i cash out part of it and use it as side income. I might try to get someone to buy % of me on this game, so i can play more confortable. People in CHina nowadays have lots of $, so games are usually very aggressive and juicy, but then ur right, if u can't stand the beats, then either dont play or bring more cash. Anyways...if anyone else have more insights on how to play on games like these, and have experience in live deep stack poker games, pls enlight me.
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Posted 2010-02-25 09:42
marjasin Group: Forum Members Registered: 2011-05-23 Posts: 89, Visits: 515	RE: Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board. Even if your read is right and he has a marginal king you need to think about your own image. You have recently lost a huge pot and then you are making a big shove into a pot like that. Its very likely that they think you are on tilt and will call you down with a weak king. You also need to think about what you are trying to represent. If you had something like AA, AK or even KK your would prob bet less than all-in to get some value so you would probably have a hard time getting him off a weak king also with your bet. I think you should pot control, smaller cbet, more on the flop, make a bet on the turn and make sure to leave yourself enough money so that you can make a pot size all-in bet on the river if you want to turn your hand into a bluff. That is a much more believable story than the one you were trying to tell in the hand.
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Posted 2010-02-25 13:39
El Gutso Group: Forum Members Registered: 2010-06-19 Posts: 34, Visits: 551	RE: Crazy live game $10-$20, 99 on K34 5 board. when u said your in China it all made sense, I'm grinding in Macau at the moment and you have zero hope of shortening the pot pre-flop which makes putting people on a range almost impossible. Also forget trying to get someone of a flush draw........impossible! Its all about pot control, your C bet was fine maybe a little big but standard, the shove on the turn was wrong imo, take the free card and see what he does on the river. U ave some somedown value, in my experiance chinese 'new' players hate to fold toppair whatever kicker they have. I still find it difficult to play overhere, think it hurts that I play HU and 6 max online then 10 handed ring live with minimum 6 players to every flop. There is sooooooo much value here IF you can pick up a few hands. Where are u in China? All the best, its a completly different game and takes a lot of adjustments.
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